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  • Writer's pictureBible Brian

Mashing a meme: Yes, God loves AND punishes us


100% of moral arguments against God are based on a faulty foundation. This is because God is actually the standard of morality. "Good" is that which complies with His will, and "evil" is that which deviates from it. By contrast, we are sinners. Like God, we have our own will, but we have no legitimate claim to its enforcement. We exist only because He willed it, we can do nothing unless He permits it, and even the very power by which we do such things is supplied by Him. Because God's will takes such a high precedence over ours, we can never sit in judgement over Him, He sits in judgement over us.


But being sinners, we do sin against Him, which includes things like blasphemy. Thus, particularly if we are atheists, we do try to sit in judgement over Him. Take, for example, the meme in the header image. This meme was shared by an atheist completely out of the blue. The page on which he commented only occasionally addresses atheism. The post he was commenting on was not one of those occasional atheist posts. In fact, ironically, it is a post by a 5 point Calvinist, who would contend that God's love only extends to the elect. Therefore, those who are not saved (or destined to be so) are not even loved by God.


Of course, I vehemently disagree with Calvinism. I contend that when God says He loves and makes propitiation for the sins of the world (John 3:16; 1 John 2:2), takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked (Ezekiel 33:11), wants all men to be saved (1 Timothy 2:3-4), and even commands us to love our enemies in order to imitate His love for His enemies (Matthew 5:43-48), He really means it all. Thus, to the ignorant, and especially to a man so ignorant he will say "your God doesn't love me" to a man who would agree "you are correct, He does not", it may seem the meme is accurate.


But love and punishment are not mutually exclusive, as the atheist is actually forced to admit. As shown in the screenshot, I answered with one simple question: Should abusive fathers be punished? The correct answer, as the atheist gave, is "absolutely". The appropriate response to abuse is always punishment. In fact, with regard to violent crimes, the Bible says "A man of great wrath will suffer punishment; For if you rescue him, you will have to do it again." (Proverbs 19:19).


But that's not actually relevant. The point is, the atheist admitted that there are scenarios in which punishment is appropriate. Therefore, punishment and love cannot be mutually exclusive.


In the meme, the implication is that God is the abusive father, taking out his wrath on us, the cowering daughter, for apparently arbitrary reasons. "IF WE WOULD ONLY LISTEN TO HIM...". But is it really that simple? Let's put it another way: "Listen to me, thou shalt not bruise thy innocent daughter, or I will punish you". Well the atheist has already agreed that the abusive father absolutely should listen to that command, or absolutely should face punishment.


Thus, the atheist has two main problems. First, the one receiving a punishment will virtually never see it as fair, even if it is. As sinners, we are naturally going to see our own sin as "no big deal", and are going to want God to either approve of our sin, or at the very least tolerate it. But we don't accept this even from other people. We don't let criminals choose the punishment for their crime, so why should we expect God to let sinners choose the punishment for our sin?


But second, we don't get to make that assessment. If you think you do, where did you get that right from? I challenge anyone, from any planet, to explain to me what gives an atheist the right to say "this deed is worthy of punishment, this deed isn't". In an atheistic worldview, morality doesn't even make sense full stop. All are equal, and the one who is "right" is the one with the biggest gun.


But God does have the right to judge all, first because He knows all. You can study for your entire life, maybe you can even extend your life and continue studying, but even if you lived for 20 billion years, even if you learned, and retained, a hundred new things every day, even if you never forgot a single thing, you wouldn't even come close to the knowledge of God. So when He judges, He's not doing so on an ignorant whim, lacking facts, as we do. Rather, He is judging what He knows based on all knowledge. He will judge perfectly every time, and without error.


But even if there was an omniscient human being, that human being would still lack God's authority. Everything that exists exists because God brought it into existence. Even a father cannot claim to have done this with his daughter, because while he was a vessel through which she was created, ultimately, God is her Creator, too. And his. A father has no authority over his daughter that God did not grant, and God did not grant the authority to beat her black and blue in a drunken rage. He will punish such wrath, because it is His right to do so, and because it is right to do so. But the wages of all sin is death, not just the sins we don't like.


With that in mind, the meme is half right to say "it's not God's fault He punishes us". God, because He is Holy, cannot tolerate sin. Nor does He even tempt us to sin (James 1:13-14). When we sin, whose fault is it? We punish abusive fathers because the father committed the abuse. The one delivering the punishment did not commit the crime. So, really, whoever made the meme betrays their inability to take responsibility for their own actions. But of course, it's also wrong because while it's not God's fault you sinned and deserved punishment, He still chooses to punish that which deserves punishment.


Eventually.


See, what the atheist will note is that he's not yet in Hell. They've sinned many times. Looking at the guy's profile picture, I'd guess he's at the very least in his mid 40s. Why is he still here? Simply because of the love God has for him that is very much not deep down.


As I already explained, God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked. Why? Because He loves everyone. When someone is punished, it's because they deserve punishment, not because God doesn't love them. There is one exception. On the cross, Jesus received the punishment for sins He did not commit. "But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us." (Romans 5:8).


Does that love seem like it's buried so deep, we can't see it? If someone deserves punishment, yet God chooses to instead receive it Himself, how can that not be considered love? If that sinner decides they would rather receive it themselves, how is that God's fault?


You see, then, that the meme has virtually everything wrong. Rather than an abusive father standing menacingly over his terrified, innocent daughter, it should actually portray a criminal standing before a judge. And what it should actually say is "It's not God's fault I sinned and deserve punishment, but if I only listen to Him, I know He loves me so deeply that I will be forgiven".


But of course, that's not as convincing a case for atheism. While atheists have a number of excuses for why that's still weird (and yes, the Bible does say "...the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing..." in 1 Corinthians 1:18), it's far easier to get people to hate an abuser than a loving yet just judge. But God is a loving and just judge, and not an abuser. The real abusers are those who will tell you to reject God's love, and therefore receive His just judgement. If an abuser must be punished, how much more those who will drag a thousand souls into Hell with them?

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